Make programmers who are not famous 300k +

Underpaid? I can’t understand

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  1. Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Little turtle 22.03.17 - 17:47

    Quit now. Then go to an intermediary / agency. 120k to 160k in Germany, no overtime done. Work through a foreign agency, otherwise you are liable for sales tax.

    The best salary in Europe is in Switzerland. 250k to 350k, no overtime. Family is parked in southern Germany (e.g. Lake Constance). Zurich - Lake Constance are only 1 hour's drive.

    At the moment, after deducting all living expenses, etc., I have a little more than 10k net (money for the account).

    Anyone who wants security moves to Frankfurt or Zurich and works for finance or Insurance. I cannot recommend telecommunications.

  2. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: tha_specializt 22.03.17 - 17:51

    Your nights are beautiful ... great dreams - I assume that you eat healthily!

  3. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Little turtle 22.03.17 - 18:57

    Berlin, React Developer (So those who earn less than backend / DB) 600 € a day. 600 euros a day is around 12.6k per month, which makes 140k gross if you work 11 months.

    Link: http://www.darwinrecruitment.com/job-details-page/?id=reactjs-developer-react-javascript-html-css-56666&keyword=Java&Country=Germany&jobtype=contract

    Conditions:

    Atleast 1 years experience in React.js
    Great epxerience in JavaScript, HTML5 and CSS
    REST API's
    GIT
    Bonus - Jasmine, Selenium

    It's a joke ...
    Easy job, no overtime. I started at Darwin back then. But there are a lot of fish in the pond.

    Here in Switzerland, where I am currently working, you are looking for your hands wringing. Agency, permanent, something in the pampas. 125 CHF per hour (1050CHF per day - are approx. 800CHF net, which is approx. 750 euros net per day).

    In Zurich you go home at 140 to 160 an hour if you are senior.

    Finally stop letting yourself be fooled. Anyone who can program should just do a few short projects. If you don't have good experience, just do a few projects at Upwork for 0 to 5 dollars an hour and then after half a year to a year you will have an application folder where everyone can take you immediately. Add to that two hours of reading a book or online courses every evening and then you get the same money as all of us here.

    So don't be semipresent like someone who doesn't know, but just open your eyes and know ....



    Edited 1 times, last on 22.03.17 19:00 by Kleine Schildkröte.

  4. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Someone_else 22.03.17 - 21:10

    Because you can compare a permanent position with a freelance salary ...

  5. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Little turtle 22.03.17 - 21:23

    Someone_else wrote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Because you compare a permanent position with a freelance salary
    > can ...

    Because as a freelancer you sit next to permanent employees through agencies and do exactly the same thing for double the salary. Again about agencies is not really self-employed. You are practically independent. Contracts in sectors such as finance and insurance are also often renewed every two years. I know enough contract workers who have worked for a company for four years or more.

    Finally stop thinking that this kind of 'freelance' doesn't work out with family. The only thing you don't have is that you don't get any Christmas bonus or vacation bonus. Before that, however, you plundered the company's coffers a lot more than employee XYZ. In addition, illness is only included in the insurance in Switzerland. In Germany you don't get anything if you are sick, or the health insurance pays that anyway if it is a bit longer and you are unable to work. is a must anyway.

    The nice thing about Switzerland is that you are always a permanent employee of the agency that sends you in (unless you have your own GmbH). In Switzerland there is no freelance activity like in Germany. You are also employed by your own company or you are treated that way.

    That gives even more security. When I can no longer work I get 9k disability pension and when I die my son gets 6k per month.

    Finally stop the myth that we freelancers or contract workers (Switzerland) have some major disadvantages.

    Another advantage, you do your own tax return ... then you don't get an effective tax rate of 40% +. Make 25% -30% outside, otherwise even fewer would work in Germany ....

  6. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: quineloe 22.03.17 - 21:40

    So in the end you are a temporary worker before the gas engine came?

  7. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Someone_else 22.03.17 - 21:42

    You can easily get 120 € per hour as a freelancer in Germany, but I know enough people who have given up for a permanent position at a startup.
    Because it's just fun to help build something new.

  8. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Presence of Mind 23.03.17 - 10:40

    Little turtle wrote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Berlin, React Developer (So those who earn less than backend / DB)
    > 600 € a day. 600 euros a day is about 12.6k per month for 11 months
    > work 140k gross.
    >
    > Link: www.darwinrecruitment.com
    >
    > Requirements:
    >
    > Atleast 1 years experience in React.js
    > Great epxerience in JavaScript, HTML5 and CSS
    > REST API's
    > GIT
    > Bonus - Jasmine, Selenium
    >
    > It's a joke ...
    > Easy job, no overtime. I started at Darwin back then.
    > But there are a lot of fish in the pond.
    >
    > Here in Switzerland, where I am currently working, you are looking for your hands wringing.
    > Agency, permanent, something in the pampas. 125 CHF per hour (1050 CHF am
    > Day - are about 800CHF net, which is about 750 euros net per day).
    >
    > You go home directly in Zurich at 140 to 160 an hour if you
    > are senior.
    >
    > Finally stop being fooled by yourself. Those who can program should
    > just do some short projects. If you don't have a good experience, simply
    > Do a few projects at Upwork for $ 0 to $ 5 an hour and then
    > after half a year to a year you have an application folder where everyone
    > take you immediately. Read or read a book for two hours every evening
    > Online courses and then you get the same money as all of us here.
    >
    > So don't talk in a semi-clever way like an ignorant person, but just do it
    > Open your eyes and know ....

    If you are desperately looking for your hands, can you send me the agency / company via PM?

  9. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: der_true_hannes 23.03.17 - 11:38

    Hach what would an article about salaries be without the little reptile and his fantasies? :)

    "Family parked on Lake Constance". What if the family doesn't feel like it? ;)

  10. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: eftokay83 23.03.17 - 11:43

    der_wahre_hannes wrote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Hach what would an article about salaries be without the little reptile and
    > his fantasies? :)
    >
    > "Family parked at Lake Constance". And if the family doesn't feel like it
    > has? ;)

    Although I currently earn quite well, that's actually too good to be true.

    300k annual salary ???

    @ Kleine_Schildkröte: Are you just exaggerating or are you serious about what you give of yourself? Sounds too good ...

    I was already involved with Darwin Recruitment, and it was always 50,000. And I don't change for that. Are at least 50K away from your statements ...

    Straight from a correspondence with Darwin:

    -------- North Rhine-Westphalia ---------

    Junior (1-2 years) - € 40-50k tall
    Mid-Level (3-4 / 5 years) - € 50-60k in size
    Senior level (4-7 +) € 60-80k
    Technical (hands on) Team Leaders: € 65-85k (usually higher end is a bonus, e.g .: € 75k + 10k)

    ----------- Switzerland -------------

    Junior (1-2 years): 65KFr - 85KFr base salary
    Mid-Level (3-4 / 5 years): 90KFr - 105KFr base salary
    Senior level (5-7 +): 110KFr - 120Kfr base salary
    Technical (hands on): Team Leaders 120KFr + base salary

    That is also at least 100k away from your statements ...: /



    Edited 4 times, last on 23.03.17 11:54 by eftokay83.

  11. Re: Underpaid? I can’t understand

    Author: Belgarion 2001 23.03.17 - 11:57

    I think the turtle lives a) either in a beautiful fantasy world, is b) incredibly talented and in demand or c) has an urge to gain recognition. Each time these comments come from him on the subject.

    Sure, the developers won't die impoverished under a bridge, but I only hear such fairy tales from him. And in the end it is like in every industry: you are average and earn afterwards or you are good. In the second case there are those who earn a pig's money and those who sell themselves below their value.

    I can't say: "If you can sing well, you go to the Bohlen and get rich and famous!"

    And freelance work is not for everyone ...

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